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PeterBuilt

DMS 2 template system

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PeterBuilt

Hi,

 

Why is it that every time I have made a change to a specific template, all my templates are messed up?

 

I am very cautious to remember to unlock the template I am working on, but nevertheless this (see the attached screen dump) is happening to my other templates...?

 

I must be doing something wrong, cause this can't be right?

 

My client, (a young individual) will grow grey hair long before time if I have to tell him that he has to remember to load and re-fresh all his templates every time he makes a change or updates something.

 

Can you please help me with an explanation and maybe also a good place to read about the proper way of handling the template system i DMS 2?

 

Thank you!

 

best

 

P.

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PeterBuilt

re: a good place to read about the template system in DMS 2:

 

Please don't suggest in front of my fireplace... :-) I am 

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Danny

Hi Peter,

 

If you're encountering the issue you have in your attached image, after editing a template, unlinking a template etc.. then the likely cause is either a plugin (usually a cache plugin) and/or your server configuration.

Therefore, can you please disable all active plugins and see if the issue persists. If it doesn't then reply here with a link to the site in question and make sure DMS debug mode is active ~ WordPress Admin Dashboard > PageLines, scroll to the bottom and check the debug checkbox.


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PeterBuilt

Hi Danny,

 

I have de-activated Polylang - I believe that an unfortunate constellation of having a global menu section set to not show up on specific page ids together with five different language versions (Frontpags etc.) might have ruined the site.

 

If I set a global fixed section to not show up on certain page ids, (specific for only one language version) and this has only been set for one language what will happen when another language frontpage is loaded, if these page ids only exist in a language different for the one I try to load?

 

Do you follow me?

 

Wouldn't these "hidden" page ids have to exist for all languages?

 

Thanks

 

PedroDK

 

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Danny

I don't quite follow you. However, if you disable all active plugins do  you still encounter the issue ?

 

Also, can you provide a link to the site in question and make sure that DMS debug mode is active please.


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Danny

Debug mode isn't currently active ?

Also, in regards to your issue, can you record it using Jing or QuickCast and demonstrate the problem you're encountering please.


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PeterBuilt

Hi Danny,

 

I did activate Debug mode - and I just checked. See below.

 

It's hard to demonstrate the issues I am having now that all plugins are de-activated...

 

best

 

Peter

 

debug-mode-active.jpg

 

 

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Danny

Debug mode is still not working.

 

Does your host have some caching system active or something like that ?

Can you PM the following info please:

 

A link to this topic so I know what the PM is regarding.

A link to the site in question, along with your admin username and password please.


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PeterBuilt

Hi Danny,

 

Our host is WP Engine.

 

What's a PM?

 

best regards

 

Peter

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bloom1creative

Only adding this here as I feel it is almost directly the same issue as the OP is having and it makes sense, and I feel it would answer his problem too.

 

Just to add my two pennies worth, when you add a template, then unlink it, the message that appears to alert you should force a refresh should it not?  Otherwise anybody editing the page would be editing the areas with the same ID's as the original template, and therefore would update the rest of the pages attached to that template.  This has been my problem with the DMS templating system from the start, the fact that none of them are actually 'Templates, and they are more of a 'linked family page' it seems, where all pages in the same template look exactly the same, unless they are unlocked, rather than consist of the same layout?  

 

Obviously the WP content section is dynamic, but say I wanted a text box on the left sidebar, and added "bla bla bla" to it, then applied that template to 5 pages.  I want all 5 pages to have the same template but the content of the textbox should be different.  Yes I could apply the template to each page, then unlink for each page, then refresh and edit, but that seems quite long winded and a messy method for templating. Is this something I am doing wrong?


Many thanks

 

Rob1n

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bloom1creative

Hi Danny,

 

Our host is WP Engine.

 

What's a PM?

 

best regards

 

Peter

 

FYI: He means message him directly Peter, PM = Private Message.


Many thanks

 

Rob1n

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PeterBuilt

Hi Bloom1Creative and Danny,

 

Bloom1Creative: Thank you very much for your comment - it certainly makes sense and confirms my own experiences with the templating system in DMS 2.

 

Danny: I'll be glad to forward you a PM with credentials etc.

 

Also Danny: In reference to Bloom1Creative's comment:

 

Is there no good, detailed and thorough tutorial or other about how to work with the template system in DMS2? If not, I would strongly suggest that - I think there are many of your customers that would welcome that. If you can just provide a link to anything that would be a great start!

 

Thanks.

 

Peter

 

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Danny

PeterBuilt - I am confused now, is your issue regarding the problem with your page not loading i.e. the image you attached in your first image or with the DMS templating system ?

 

The DMS docs are as we speak receiving a make over and will be more intuitive. 

 

bloom1creative - If you want to have multiple pages use the same template but have some sections configured differently then you're going to need to do the following:

 

1. Load the template you would like to use onto the page in question.

2. Before making any changes, unlink the template.
3. Make your changes and publish, the changes should not impact the other pages.

 

This is how templates work, if you create a template and want to use it on multiple pages, then the template will be the same, as it is a template. If you want to use a template you have created and use it as a base, then you need to unlink the template.


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PeterBuilt

Hi Danny,

 

It's a good question - taht's what I want to find out.

 

But generally I think that a lot of my problems stem from the fact that I could use a more solid introduction to how to work with the DMS 2 system in general.

So it's good to hear that the DMS docs are being revised.

 

As for a login to our site - how do I send you a PM?

 

thanks

 

P.

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bloom1creative

Danny yeah you've basically described what I said I did mate haha.

 

The unlinking and then changing process however does not work for me, ever.

 

I have to refresh the page or the IDs of the template remain the same as they were prior to unlinking.

 

I appreciate that you would unlink the template to make changes bespoke to that page, but then the term 'template' no longer applies, as that page is not a template at all and has no link to the other templates.  Like my initial gripe, the word 'template' in it's conventional sense means a base or a starting point that is consistent, whereas for DMS it essentially means a group of cloned pages that all look the same, bar the wp content section.

 

I love the system and usually find workouts, and I'm not by any means slagging it off.  I merely see an area for improvement. Locking templates needs to be available too ideally as creating templates for clients is a nightmare if you can't lock the layouts.


Many thanks

 

Rob1n

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Danny

PeterBuilt - I have replied to your PM. Basically, your issue is regarding how you're attempting to use DMS with a plugin. The concept you want is something that isn't supported in WordPress and to do what you want to achieve would require either a plugin or custom code.

 

bloom1creative - If you're unlinking a template, making changes and these changes are effecting other pages using that template then you have not followed my instructions above, making the changes before you have unlinked the template or you're attempting to change sections in global areas such as Fixed, Header or Footer. These global areas are universal, so you can not have different configurations unless you use the hide on page option and use the ID on the Page Handling panel.

 

In regards to your statement about a template, not sure what you mean. If you create a template with a specific layout and configured sections, then save this as Template 1. You can load this template on any page you like and it will use that template. However, if you want to make specific changes to the layout or sections configuration, you're going to need to unlink the template, otherwise it will make these changes throughout your site that use this template. 

So I am at a loss as to how you think templates should work ?

As before DMS 2.x, we had it so that when a user created a template, they could load that template on a any page, have it so that when they made changes, these changes would be local that page and that page only. However, the amount of users complaining saying that these changes should be made universal across all pages immense, so we changed the system in DMS 2.x.

So basically, you prefer the old system ?


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PeterBuilt

Hi Danny,

 

I see - so historically both ways of handling the template system in DMS have been implemented.

 

I personally believe it's more intuitive to regard "a template" as something you can utilize on page level for a specific page and only that page - not something global for an entire website.

 

But I guess other people have other views on this.

 

One solution (for Pagelines and it's users) would be to create a detailed and contemporary tutorial - maybe including video - on how to regard and use the template system in DMS 2.

 

The present documentation is - as far as I can see - outdated with examples and imagery from and older version of DMS.

 

The template system in DMS 2 is quite advanced and not that intuitive to use - this is not meant as negative criticism, but it's just the case, isn't it?

 

regards

 

Peter

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Danny

No problem Peter, I completely understand and new docs will be much better I promise you.


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bloom1creative

Danny yes exactly what Peter said.

 

I have tried that method on at least 6 different sites each failing, and have in fact spoken to a friend yesterday who without prompt asked me why his new pages were changing the homepage, and as soon as i mentioned he should refresh the page, viola, it was working.  the reason you need to refresh the page is due to the IDs of the sections, they do not change for me by simply unlocking alone, you have to refresh the page.  Perhaps I am the only one, but I can assure you it happens every time.

 

We seem to be getting in to arguments here when it's less what I think, and more the point I am trying to make of what a 'template' actually means - a base foundation or structure in which to build upon to save you time and save you remaking the whole layout over and over.

 

In the DMS 1 yes, you are correct, that was technically the way a template should have operated, but even then it wasn't working well as I was also one that delivered the was the DMS 2 templates work should have been provided as an option.  I think Peters comment says it all reinforcing my point of what people would see a template to mean, where in the DMS2 it is far more than that, its almost a set of cloned pages unless you unlink them and create a new template.

 

I suppose simply, my concluding point would be, if you are encouraging users to add content through the sections rather than wp content loop, then the amount of time that anybody would want the exact same content on every page would be minimal.  Same layout, sure, and even some areas of content the same, but not a set of pages that are all the same, which kinda makes the feature somewhat void.

 

Saving sections and creating templates is a great feature, and i have always found ways around creating what I want to achieve, I just mean that there could be so many little tweaks implemented to allow 'either or' options rather than the 'this is how they work now' kinda option, as there will always be people looking for on or the other.

 

Cheers :)


Many thanks

 

Rob1n

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Danny

bloom1creative - I can't understand how you're failing to use the unlink feature, you must be doing something wrong or have something causing an issue. I have recorded a video of me loading a template I have created to a new page, unlinking the template and making changes. These changes do not effect the homepage, which also has this template assigned to it.

 

http://quick.as/w4opulvg

 

In regards to what Peter stated, we had that templating system implemented in DMS 1.x and user feedback was that it isn't how templates should work. The system in place now, allows you to have a template on multiple pages and if you make a change on one page, it will make those changes to all of them. If you want to use a template as a base, then you load the template on the page, then unlink.


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bloom1creative

Danny yeah I can see that you have no problems.  I will try and make you a video, can't think its the database but there's a chance it is.  I don't do anything different to it, just install regular Wordpress as standard and add on Pagelines :/  

 

It's odd though as in your video if you check the ID's of the elements you are editing, they remain the same as before you unlinked them, implying that you are in fact editing the previously unlocked section.

 

I get a ton of issues with saved sections too, which I will provide a video to.  I save out a section, and then when I use it on another page, quite often it will just wipe the contents of the saved section once I add it, and then the original is also wiped and I need to remake the whole thing.

 

I currently have an issue where the DMS is showing a blank section when logged in, but when logged out, it's all there and fine.  I'll follow up with videos when I can, very odd and frustrating as I am telling clients to unlink templates etc but it's changing the originals still.


Many thanks

 

Rob1n

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Danny

Yeah we are going to need to have some videos regarding your issues. However, if you have no plugins active, then the likely cause is your server in my opinion.


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