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jamieg270

Something seems awry with google fonts...

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jamieg270

I'been using Pagelines DMS sisnce pretty much day 1, and have quite a lot of sites running on it. Source Sans Pro is a very popular font with my clients but recently I've been having problems with it rendering the Light(300) weight in Google Chrome. All other browsers are fine.

 

 

I had noticed a number of my sites that have Source Sans Pro implemented were no longer rendering the font weight light(300) in this font in Google Chrome.

 

I did a bit of investigating, I was already well aware that the main browsers can be somewhat inconsistent in their rendering of googlefonts and webfonts but had never come across this particular problem where a Light(300) weight font would render exactly the same as a Normal (400) regardless of what code I implemented or where I set it (in CSS or on the lement made no difference) in Google Chrome. I also considered Google Chrome to be one of the better browsers when it came to font support.

 

I looked on the forums to see if anyone else was hitting a similar problem. I came across this thread in the forums: http://forum.pagelines.com/topic/32828-font-weight-in-browsers-inconsistent/

 

Which seemed to imply the problem I was hitting was similar to the OPs and simply a quirk of Google Chrome.

 

However the problem is I know these sites were previously rendering the light weight of Source Sans Pro in Google Chrome. I develop for Google Chrome first and then test in all other browsers. I know these sites were rendering Source Sans Pro light(300). I'm not sure however when they started rendering it as Normal (400).

 

I checked through all my sites and came across one that hadn't been uupdated from DMS 1.1 as yet and did a little test. Low and behold the Light version of Source Sans Pro rendered without problem in Google Chrome on that one site.

 

OK, so far so good but what was the cause of this, was it DMS or another plugin or just poor code on my part. Looking at that install where Source Sans rendered in Light without problem, I noticed that it had an old legacy Pagelines font plugin still active. The Pageslines-Googlefont plugin.

 

As far as I am aware Pagelines Googlefonts is a legacy plugin thats no longer supported at least its no longer listed in the marketplace and there seems to be no way of downloading it any longer.

 

I deactivated it and selected Source Sans Pro from the built in DMS list and suddenly Light (300) rendered as Normal (400).

 

The problem seems to be in DMS. Using the old Pagelines Googlefonts plugin adds a repeat of the Googlefonts list in the Settings>Typography panel. If you select the repeated copy of Source Sans Pro then Light renders as Light not Normal. Without the plugin despite it looking like Source Sans Pro Light (300) is available if you select it it will render as 400 in Chrome no matter what you do.

 

 

Just to be sure this is happening the way I describe I did two clean installs on the same test server with the latest version of DMS, one with the legacy Pagelines Googlefonts plugin installed and active and one without. 

 

With legacy Pagelines Googlefonts Plugin: http://one.cypher-design-dev.net/

Without the legacy Plugin: http://two.cypher-design-dev.net/

 

As you can see only DMS with the old plugin installed and active correctly renders Source Sans Pro in Light (300) in Chrome.

 

Screengrabs are attached.

 

Is this a bug, or am I mistaken about Pagelines Googlefonts being a legacy Plugin, I can't find that old plugin in the Marketplace although it is mentioned in documentation for DMS?

 

I've not tested with any other fonts so don't know how widespread the problem is...

 

 

Thanks,

 

Jamie

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Danny

Hi,

 

This isn't an issue with DMS, its an issue with the font you selected and the font-weight you used, which was supported by the default font included in DMS.
 

This is because the default Source Sans Pro in DMS (without the plugin) does provide support for the font-weight 300 version. However, our Google web fonts plugin does, it loads all fonts and all font-weights in the plugin, that is why.


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jamieg270

HI Danny,

 

Your reply is a little confusing, it doesn't seem to make sense to me...

 

Are you saying DMS doesn't have support for 300 weight fonts where the font has such a weight out of the box, despite the default DMS showing Light 300 as a selectable option on all fonts? That you need the plugin to make these available? If so I don't think thats the case as other fonts (Open Sans) for instance has a 300 weight font that is available and selectable in a default DMS install and does render correctly.  Again Source Sans Pro Light does render correctly in a default DMS install (without the plugin) in all browsers bar Chrome. This cannot be by design. It does display correctly in Chrome when we use the plugin. So therefore there must be some form of bug in Default DMS implementation for this font.

 

Or are you saying that this font in particular, Source Sans Pro, has no support for Light 300 in default DMS install? If so that seems like an oversight rather than by design surely? As Source Sans Pro has a 300 option in the source files. Why set up the fonts for Light, Normal, Bold and then on one font (it maybe more I've not tested) simply overlook the light/300 weight font and render as 400? That looks like an oversight to me? I've checked and Source Sans Pro has a 300 weight font so surely if thats the standard that a default DMS install is applying it should have been loaded? Again Source Sans Pro Light does render correctly in a default DMS install (without the plugin) in all browsers bar Chrome. This cannot be by design. So therefore there must be some form of bug in a default DMS install when it comes to this font.

 

 

Or, are you saying that a default DMS install does have support for Light/300 fonts (where such a font has the required weight of course)? In which case I've demonstrated that this font slection has a bug of some kind in a default install of DMS, that prevents the fonts rendering correctly in Chrome. It has the 300 weight but the 300 weight is not rendering in Chrome when it should be.

 

As mentioned this is only effecting Google Chrome. In a default DMS install all other browsers are correctly rendering Source Sans Light so clearly there is that weight available and it is being loaded, but only in Chrome does it not display correctly. Since the font does render correctly in Chrome when installed via the plugin and other methods, that seems to indicate some form of bug in DMS preventing its rendering in Chrome. I can't believe the Pagelines team would choose to have this particular font behave this way when it doesn't have to be. That doesn't make any sense does it?

 

My final question, is the Pagelines Googlefonts plugin now a legacy plugin with no further ongoing support? I'd like to know as if it is supported I'll simply use that to load the required fonts and ensure all weights are available. Certainly if DMS inconsistent with the display of some weights in Chrome when there is no reason it should, as I have demonstrated, than thats what I'll have to do to ensure that at least Light, Normal and Bold are certainly available in all fonts that have them in DMS.

 

If not than I know I now need to ignore the DMS typography panel and load my fonts directly if I come across this problem again with other supported fonts.

 

Its no big deal for me I can load it directly if I wish, but other users don't have the technical skill. I know in the greater scheme of things a tiny bug in one font implementation like this isn't greatly important. I'm sure there are other features, fixes etc that have far greater importance.

 

Saying that however this may be occurring in other fonts...

 

Anyway I'll leave things there. I can get around the issue but others would not and might be confused as to why, where the font has the weight available, that when selected it does not render correctly in Chrome and Chrome alone. There is no reason it should not (as I demonstrated), so I therefore think this is probably a bug.

 

Thanks for you time, it is appreciated,

 

Jamie

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Danny

I am not sure I can explain it any differently. The Source Sans Pro default font doesn't support the font-weight 300, you can see this on Google Web Fonts.

 

http://cl.ly/image/1t2q3M3A0h2n

 

However, when you use the plugin it loads everything all fonts and weights.

 

I have viewed your no plugin page on all modern browsers and it appears the same no difference in the font weight, not sure why you're only seeing it in Chrome.

 

The Google Web fonts plugin is currently considered legacy. However, I have asked if it can be included in the DMS Pro Tools plugin. Also, to my knowledge, there shouldn't be any issue with the plugin, as it should update the fonts automatically, when Google add new ones.


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jamieg270
I am not sure I can explain it any differently. The Source Sans Pro default font doesn't support the font-weight 300, you can see this on Google Web Fonts.

 

 

OK, I don't think Google Fonts work the way you think they do... ...as I understood it there is no 'default set of weights' in a Google font, each weight is its own font that must be called to be available and use, although I suppose you could call 400 the default as that corresponds to Normal. If it was the case as per your screenshot then all fonts default would be just Normal 400 in DMS and no other font weight would be loaded. That screenshot is the default starting point for your choices on what fonts you want to call and load. The developer of DMS seems to have chosen 300, 400, 600 and 800 as the defaults where a font has those weights available.

 

All are separate fonts that need to be called and loaded individually by weight, there is no default set of weights. Technically speaking unless the font weight is called and loaded it won't be available and will not render when specified (though it seems Safari might be the exception to that rule, see below). So whatever subset of weights of a font family the developer had to choose them to be default in the DMS install. The criteria used seems to be 300, 400, 600, 800 when available in the font family in DMS, that seems to be the criteria set for all the other fonts. It seems that in the case of Source Sans Pro, 300 was omitted from the default set... and 900 (Ultra Bold) is loaded instead.

 

 

I have viewed your no plugin page on all modern browsers and it appears the same no difference in the font weight, not sure why you're only seeing it in Chrome.

 

Bugger stupid mistake on my part. If you check again you'll should see the light (300) weight render in Safari... however in Firefox it doesn't render. So the light weight is rendering only in Safari.

 

Looking at the underlying code 300 is not being called at all when Sources Sans Pro is specified without the plugin, I can see 400, 600, 700 and 900 being loaded. 900 cannot be specified in the DMS typography panel so unless your styling using CSS its pretty useless to users without that knowledge base... which makes me think thats a mistake

 

[attachment=1993:Screen-Shot-2014-03-02-at-20.42.18.jpg]

 

It looks to me that 900 is a mistake and that 300 should have been called instead, again this looks like a simple error. 

 

Safari is... odd. No 300 weight is called and loaded and yet it it's clearly displaying the Light weight font when specified in CSS. My immediate thought is its either approximating Light from those that are loaded  or is loading the full font family in all weights regardless of what's specified. I think probably the latter than the former, as there would be noticeable distortion of the font if it is approximated. One way or the other it definitely renders a lighter font than 400. I've checked and tested on three different machines all running the latest Safari (Macbook OS10.5, Macbook Pro OS10.9.2., Macbook Retina OS10.9.2)...

 

[attachment=1994:Screen-Shot-2014-03-02-at-21.10.15.jpg]

 

Anyway thanks for your time.

 

If the plugin gets added to Pro Tools, then that should fix this regardless of the cause.

 

You can probably close this down now you've answered the most pressing question, unless you have anything further to add...

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