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A matter of perspective...

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I am creating this as a new thread since I feel that this is something that needs to be said about DMS. Not to complain, but in hopes that it will lend itself to the products (which I think has great potential) improvement.


This post is a continuation of another post (http://forum.pagelines.com/topic/29978-font-issue/#entry176506) where a disagreeance of perspective to direction of DMS between myself and DMS staff, relative to a technical issue I had with font control. Again, I say this as a layman user (not a developer/coder. But a person who bought the software as an upgrade from Platform to make my site look more professional) and now after struggling with it since release (a rough ride for both parties) in my opinion, all cheer-leading aside, this product needs more out of the box as well as some serious mea culpa to its faithful (Platform/framework customers, both who remained and converted)...That said, heres the post....


Rob, on 18 Sept 2013 - 1:01 PM, said:

@psiencesociety  While there are 'flashier sections' in our store, they are there for your convenience, and because they're all tested with DMS.  You're completely free to use no-cost plugins on your own.  We're not stopping you in any way from doing that.  The only issue you'll have to face is the inconvenience of testing, and of course customizing them to work as you desire.  The price one pays for those flashier ones we offer is that they're usually pretty much ready to roll, speeding up the site-building process and at the same time, saving you from coding.  It's a balance you have to find, but we're only providing you the choice, not a fait accompli.  I assure you that you have many, many options.



Rob I constructively (not to be complaining, or disgruntled, but honest, as I don't think you all are seeing it from a customer perspective) have to disagree completely. To begin with when you go to pagelines home page it says straight up:


Create drag & drop websites in minutes

An amazing way to create awe-inspiring, mobile-friendly sites without coding.



Right there....Without coding...That to me is misleading. Sure you can make a pretty simple, stacked, scroll website "Without Coding"...But its really not the case, as to modify what should definitely be easy, such as font, you need to code in CSS of all things! A much more intense code compared to HTML for us laymen. Compared to Platform Pro, or even free wordpress, I can modify font, pictures, ect all without having to code. But not DMS. Its way over simplified such as .... add a picture, throw in some text, and that's it. You cannot at the gui/widget level modify ANYTHING...All has to be done with code to make it what you call "flashy", and what I consider "should be a given". As again, you had the ability in Platform, and now you do not in DMS, typically in the new and improved and or next gen software you don't step back, you leap forward. In this case I have to say you fell over backwards.


Also....You charge for a customer right off the street 200.00 (rounded) on top of a monthly "subscription" (business). That gets you DMS which can ONLY be used on Chrome (really?? Chrome??) you know that a huge number of people use Firefox. Strike one...Then I look at what I got, a builder that offers only 34 sections...I have to say, for less money I can buy MS word and that has a tremendous amount of power/options. For the amount of money you are asking out of the gate, within the first month of owning your product I should not have to be in the position where I am already having to consider buying options!! 34 sections?? Full width offers 2 options...Post layouts, ONE option....Gallery, ONE option....Really man!? I paid 200.00 (rounded) WITH a subscription and I get ONE option!? My initial impression, aside from being severely underwhelmed, is that I got ripped off!


Ok, finally to address your "fait accompli"...(ok sure, I'll google it <sigh>)


I just don't see it. For what it should offer, it IS an accomplished fact or a done deal, as the given "choice" is broccoli or Brussels sprout, both suck, lol!  Your quickslider for example (one of a massive 2 options I have to choose from, something I would expect to see in a free to try option, but definitely not in a product I just paid that much money for). I can upload a picture and then add a line of text. That text, compared to the picture its up against is teeny tiny AND its in a shadow box. As a fait accompli  it makes no sense visually which I can see is the case given that in these forums the need to change both is something that has generated multiple postings, both requiring code that needs to be 'alms for code' (I'll call your overly fancy french word with my own, lol!!)


I got that off my chest as a customer (paying) who has been using the product and has been so far, very frustrated.


Thank you for listening and hopefully it can be seen as constructive, at least I tried to make it so.

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We completely understand what you're saying, but with DMS you can create a website and have it and running in minutes. The problem is, you wish to customize elements on your wesbite. This is where it becomes difficult, we could if we wanted to, add multiple options for all kinds of things from text position, text color, size, weight, hover, active, focus states etc...
The issue is where do we draw the line? As your customization problem will most certainly be different to the John Doe, and his customization level may be different to Jane Doe. As your topic titles suggests, it's a matter of perspective.
A good example of this, can be found in in Platform Pro. Platform Pro had literally over 25+ options for text colors alone. This ranged from your site basic text color, to hover states. Now the general consensus from feedback was that most users found these options confusing even though each option was documented inline. We prefer to have a product that is simple to use, of course there is a learning curve, but at the end of the day, it should be simple, but powerful. In my opinion, DMS is simple to use and powerful. You can tell so, by viewing other DMS users websites, they don't generally look the same. When you view websites from other themes, platforms or framework, they generally look the same and you can tell which product it is using.
Now lets say for example, we just released an update to DMS that has the following:
Color Picker for Section Area Background
Two Color Pickers for Section Area Gradient Background
Color Picker for Content Background
Two Color Pickers for Content Gradient Background
Font Family
Font Weight
Font Style
Color Picker for Text Color
Color Picker for Text Hover color
Color Picker for Text Active color
Color Picker for Text Shadow
Text position option containing left, right, top, bottom, top left, top right, bottom left, bottom right and center.
Border color
Border size
Border type
Can you imagine if we added these options to all sections ? At first, you may think OMFGWTFBBQ AwesomeSauce. However, I would guarantee after about 30minutes, our forums, helpdesk and 300 Skype channel would be flooded with questions and issues. This update DMS would allow the user to change most aspects of all sections. However, in the process, it would also become two things, Bloated and highly confusing.
That is why most sections have a styling classes option field, this option field is insanely powerful. By adding just a few custom classes, such as:
You can completely change the look of a section, now I know you don't like the idea of having to use custom code, but in my opinion this is easier than adding tons of options which some users will probably never use and with that just confuse them.
So I think the options currently in DMS, are more than enough (maybe a few tweaks here and there) to create a great looking website and have it up in minutes. However, I think your ideas are really cool, but I think they would be better in plugin form, rather than part of the core codebase.

Please search our forums, before posting!

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