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clinton4

Padding and margin issues!?

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clinton4
Hi,

I have been playing with DMS for two weeks now and a issue I often encounter is problems with unwanted paddings and margins. I also see that many other users have the same issues. When I search in the forums I see all answers points to using custom CSS to fix it. Now I don't feel like this is an issue that should be solved with custom CSS, I mean, DMS claims to be a true drag & drop system and a common tweak like controlling padding and margin should realy have it's own option box within each section/element.

Also, In generally I feel to many small (but important) tweaks needs to be fixed with custom CSS, where there easily could have been an option box to controll/tweak the "problem/issue".

I could agree that some tweks/issues would need to be solved with custom CSS.

So to my questions:

1. Will there be a option box to controll padding and margin within each section/element in the nearest future?

2. To all who read this post, what is your opinion?

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Jake

Hi clinton4 - This may not address all of your concerns, especially in regards to margins, but if you haven't already found this, there is the option to control padding globally in the global settings  - see http://d.pr/i/sUMI. That does make a bit of difference overall and otherwise, I will make sure the developers are aware of your feedback regarding the ability to control different sections individually.


Have you searched the forums yet or checked out the DMS user docs?

PageLines geek, blogging at MyUntangledLife.com

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Rob

Hi,

 

I do not know if such an option will be added in future.  Rather than asking, perhaps you should post in Ideas and Feedback, which our developers are more likely to read.

 

There is, in most sections, via the edit option, a drop down list for padding.  If not, then it will definitely have a class field. Add something like my-new-pad1 to that field.  Then, in Custom Code, add something like 

.my-new-pad1 {padding: 0;
margin: 0;
}

Simple, easy, and fast solution.


Former PageLines Moderator, Food Expert and Raconteur

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clinton4
Jake

Yes, that removes some of the unwanted padding. But there is still more unwanted padding and margin.

Rob

I have also set "Padding CSS (shorthand)" to 0px 0px in the current option box (both local an global). Which removes some more unwanted padding. But there is still more unwanted padding and margin.

So i look in chrome inspector and there i find this:

body .pl-area .pl-section .pl-section > .pl-section-pad {
padding: 8px;
margin-bottom: 1em;
}

This can only be changed/overwritten by adding some custom CSS. Which i find annoying. What is the point of having the option "Padding CSS (shorthand)" if its not truly controlling the padding for that section?

My point is: It should not be necessary to have to use so much custom CSS here and there, at least not for such minor tweaks. Don't you agree?

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Rob

Is there a min-height set for this section? If so, that could be adding inline styling. If examined in Firebug, do you see anything indicating padding like element {padding: 200px;} ?

 

The min-height option sets extra height padding (top and bottom) to something using the option. Since it's a setting, no CSS is required. Just change the value to 1.


Former PageLines Moderator, Food Expert and Raconteur

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clinton4
Rob

No, there is no such option. I am using the TextBox section.

The problem is the css class mentioned above. I know this for sure.

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Danny

Can you provide a screenshot of your issues, as I generally don't encounter any issues with padding/margin.


Please search our forums, before posting!

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Danny

Ok, I understand what you mean, but that isn't an issue in my opinion, especially when you look at the bigger picture. The reason I say this is that, all sections need some kind of padding/margin if they didn't it would cause all users to have issues with padding margins and would require them to add CSS. Having some kind of default padding/margin, limits this confusion.

 

Lets say we removed all default padding/margins from sections, this would then mean that there would need to be four options for users.

 

Two padding option fields and two margin option fields, each one for the section area as a whole and one for the inner section padding. This would cause confusion amongst users.

 

Therefore, the only fix is for you to create a number of classes that reduce this. Nick has created a free plugin called Classy, which includes a number of predetermined classes for things such as this. You can find Nicks plugin here - https://github.com/bearded-avenger/classy

I already have created something similar which will be available on the CSS/LESS Cheatsheet when I finally complete it.


Please search our forums, before posting!

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clinton4

I don't agree. You don't have to remove all default padding/margins. You could have made a solution/option-box which holds these "required" values by default. Then users who wanted them could leave it at default, and people who wanted to change them would have the option to change them.

 

Also, I don't want to install some plugin to fix something that I feel sould be in the core. Most Drag & Drop themes have the option to truly controll padding and margin, but not DMS.

 

Anyhow, If DMS is not for me, then it's not for me.

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Rob

@clinton4  I'm very sad to hear you say that.  Please keep in mind too, that neither Danny nor I wrote DMS. We merely support it and moderate these forums.  In many ways, we're both learning as we go along, also.

 

I understand you don't want to do CSS, but your suggestion that customized CSS shouldn't be needed is something with which I must disagree.  DMS is built, I must respectfully point out, to allow people at any skill level the opportunity to build an easily customized site, out of the box.  When someone wants to start tweaking padding, we provide settings in most places allowing such control, without coding.  But there comes a point where people want to start adjusting all sorts of things.  At that point, customized CSS is needed.

 

Long ago, I was a big advocate of settings (and in many ways, I remain so), but there is a logical reason why minimal settings makes sense. If you gave everyone all the possible options to check a box here, select some setting there, well, it just slows their site design down completely. Not to mention the risk of people going crazy with options. There are themes (not systems like DMS), that have gzillions of options. They also take days to build a website, compared to the short time in DMS. And surprisingly, in favor of options, some remove the ability to use CSS as an internal option, compelling users to write custom code directly to a stylesheet.  DMS affords you instant access to Custom CSS (working with both CSS and LESS) and it gives you plenty of internal options. 

 

The last premise of your argument I'll disagree with is the comparison to other Drag & Drop themes.  DMS is not a theme.  Please, don't even think of DMS as a theme. It is the farthest thing from a theme known to the world today.  This is a Document Management System, and revolutionizes website design.  It does things no theme could ever do, nor ever will.  If you embrace that concept, I think you'd be happy with DMS, and enjoy using it.


Former PageLines Moderator, Food Expert and Raconteur

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clinton4
Rob

Of cource I want to do custom CSS, but not for such minor configurations, which easily could be a part of the GUI.

I dont mean to be rude, but I cant see whats so revolutionizes about DMS. Could you point out some things for me? I actualy want to know.

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Rob

First, it's a document management system, so a template can be created for each page, post, category, etc.  Directly from the thing being viewed, I might add, making it truly wysiwig. Then, it incorporates and integrates sections, plugins, the store to acquire and use added things, and ultimately, it makes the creation of the site a fully integrated process.  Everything you need, except FTP access, is right at hand. Nothing else does that.

 

The way it handles your site, by managing its documents and allowing you so much control over setting colors, and yes, even padding, from access point in most cases is incredibly inventive, and in most ways, unique.  That's probably why Forbes.com published a two page article about it, as did Fortune.  It's probably why a major space agency has selected it for their astronauts to use for blogging on their missions. Yes, we'll be with them when the first man lands on Mars.

 

DMS is speedy.  Without customizations and only settings, the average user could put up a site in 30 minutes. I just converted a large older site using Platform Pro over to DMS in less than 90 minutes, despite is 300+ pages and 700+ postings. 

 

Can I say it's perfect? No. But I'd dare anyone to show me something that is. Will it grow, adjust, adapt and change? Sure.  But you should understand this is a brand new product, only released July 24, in the midst of a hellstorm for our company.  It came out as v. 0.9.6 and now it's on 1.0.3. We're making changes rapidly and trying to react to people's needs.  I'd only ask you to keep with it, and remain patient as it grows.


Former PageLines Moderator, Food Expert and Raconteur

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beardedavenger

I made a plugin that makes getting rid of all this padding easy:

 

http://pagelinesdevcamp.com/2013/08/stay-classy-my-friends/

 

You basically just add the css classes to the Standard Options panel in each section. 

 

Hope this helps!


Something big is coming for DMS + photographers.

http://fotostheme.com

 

Nick Haskins & CO - New home for all of my PageLines Store products! 

http://nickhaskins.co

 

Better DMS - News, Tutorials, and Tips

http://betterdms.com

 

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clinton4

Yes i know about that plugin. And the fact that you have made a plugin to resolve the issue, confirms that this is a common issue with DMS.

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beardedavenger

Yep it's a PITA, but others have used the plugin and it seems to help them.  To make things even more confusing, let's take a journey down why this plugin was created. Let's take the class .pl-section-pad for example. Prior to 1.0.3, this class had to be overtaken with

 

.body .pl-area .pl-section-pad > .pl-section-pad {padding:0;}

 

So this plugin was created because overriding things is a PITA and applying classes on the fly is easier.However, 1.0.3 shifted the order of CSS back to where it's supposed to be. This means it's no longer necessary to; be so specific with CSS, and it's no longer a PITA overriding stuff if you're skilled with inspector.

 

Anyways, hope this helps.


Something big is coming for DMS + photographers.

http://fotostheme.com

 

Nick Haskins & CO - New home for all of my PageLines Store products! 

http://nickhaskins.co

 

Better DMS - News, Tutorials, and Tips

http://betterdms.com

 

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Erwan

Hi Nick beardedavenger
 

Yep it's a PITA, but others have used the plugin and it seems to help them.  To make things even more confusing, let's take a journey down why this plugin was created. Let's take the class .pl-section-pad for example. Prior to 1.0.3, this class had to be overtaken with

 

.body .pl-area .pl-section-pad > .pl-section-pad {padding:0;}

 

So this plugin was created because overriding things is a PITA and applying classes on the fly is easier.However, 1.0.3 shifted the order of CSS back to where it's supposed to be. This means it's no longer necessary to; be so specific with CSS, and it's no longer a PITA overriding stuff if you're skilled with inspector.

 

Anyways, hope this helps.


You really spark my interest here! Would it mean I could just a little clean up my LESS files (better custom classes, reduce important declarations, etc.)?

I must admit I didn't notice that 1.0.3 introduced such a major DMS CSS change as regards specificity/nested LESS... 

My inspector still shows me this poetic ".body .pl-area .pl-section-pad > .pl-section-pad", and I don't see any corresponding change in the core pl-structure.less (not to name names ;)).

What dit I miss 
:blink: ?

 

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