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x3mgroup

What is the upgrade fee from PlatformPro to PageLines Framework?

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x3mgroup

Dear Support, I have a PlatformPro Developer version 1.x, i understand that version 2.0 will be released soon. Anyone that Pre-Orders it(before 8/12), will pay $ 175.00! So what will we, owners of version 1.x, have to pay for an upgrade to PlatformPro Developers version 2.0, incl. Drag & Drop Framework & Vectors? And what will the upgrade fee be for the version without the Vector? Appreciate you quick answer, kind regards Charles F. Wolff Schoemaker

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catrina
This is from the PageLines 2.0 topic... As a current PlatformPro user, there are two scenarios. 1. If you purchased before September 15, 2011; you will get a 40%-off upgrade price. This includes a 40% discount off the discounted pre-order price. (Here is your coupon code: DB04F97D3A for pre-order here: http://www.pagelines.com/launch/ ) 2. If you purchased on or after September 15. Then congratulations! You've purchased within the grace period and will get a free-upgrade. +Plus members also get free upgrade.

Please read the docs before posting. Please do not private message me unless I ask you to.

Designer | Catrina Dulay

Founder | Catrina and Mouse

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x3mgroup
I just did a test, by entering a new customer name on the purchase page, i opted for the DEV version 397.00, i entered the discount code and 238.20 was what i would have to pay as a NEW CUSTOMER, the same amount i, as a 1.5x owner, have to pay! I totally don't think that this is fair!!!

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Danny
Hi Charles, Can you contact via email please, they will be able to assist you! [email protected]

Please search our forums, before posting!

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electriceasel
You say that plus members get a free upgrade. What is a plus member? Are those that purchased Platform Pro Dev considered plus members?

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rweiss
If I use my current account (developer account) and purchase the 2.0 developer I get taken to paypal with no discount applied. If I try to do it from the new buyer area I can't use my email address or current user name. So, obviously, I need some way to use my discount code and still keep my account. Any guidance?

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electriceasel
catrina, are PlatformPro Dev accounts considered to be +plus accounts?

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nueranet
Hey Pagelines, I want my 2.0 FREE. When we bought the previous version you told us it was LIFETIME . Now you take away our original version and you want to charge members for a the 2.0. What kind of a scam is this. This is illegal business. Your Payments Product Period Payment System Amount PlatformPro Developer 11/02/2010 LIFETIME PayPal $175.00 You can not trap people into believing they get something for a price and then slam them with a new fee. What are you guys taking lessons from Microsoft. Knock that stupidity off and give members who bought the previous version under the conditions that this was upgrades for LIFETIME not for TIME LIMITED. NOT a Happy Customer at all.

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x3mgroup
Please just make it (even more) simple: Last MARCH 2011, i purchased a Platform Pro 1.5 Developers version. I now want to get the new 2.0 Developers (aka Pagelines Framework 2.0 Developer) version, so WHAT DO I HAVE TO PAY FOR IT (in US DOLLARS PLEASE!) ?

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aemillerco
What a joke. Oh and we will get LIFETIME UPGRADES? Awwww... that's sweet but you will just come out with version 3 and screw us like you did with version 2! I had lifetime upgrades on the last version that are now worthless. Thanks, but no thanks. I am moving on.

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Jenny
@electriceasel : No, that was a separate product @x3mgroup : Tickets are extremely backed up, as I'm sure you can imagine, especially when multiple emails are sent. We are working as fast as we can to get through them. Regarding pricing, we are offering a limited time discount for those who missed the pre-order window. Email [email protected] before December 20th for your discount. @nueranet and @aemillerco : Upgrades for the current version are free throughout the version of that theme (see the FAQ). Example, if you buy 1.0, you receive all updates through 1.9 for free. Major updates, such as 2.0, require a new purchase. This is all the in FAQ. "Lifetime" means you own that specific product for your lifetime (eg. PlatformPro 1.X).

Jenny :: Web designer at Simple Mama (follow me at @simplemamacom)

Check out Share Me, a social sharing add-on for DMS that is super simple to set up.

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x3mgroup
Finally i got a satisfying answer from Pagelines. And i am happy, hopefully other ppl have also been supplied with a satisfactory answer.

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electriceasel
I just sent this email to PageLines support today. You sold this as a life time upgrade. You did not sell this as an annual subscription, which is what it turned out to be. You did not advertise when you sold it that you would be changing the number of the next big release to "2.0", thus nullifying my "1.0 Pro Account". I purchased the Developer LIFETIME version of platform pro, and I am entitled to ALL UPGRADES to the software. If you do not grant me access to the 2.0 version, and all future upgrades in accordance with my lifetime purchase, me and several other purchasers of your software will be happy to file complaints and report you to the appropriate authorities for false advertising, breach of contract, and failure to fulfill contractual obligations. @x3mgroup - what was your satisfactory answer? Did they give it to you for free like the are contractually obligated to? Because I will not consider anything else a satisfactory answer.

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nueranet
simple_mama, You can not change the rules after your customers paid for something else. You offered lifetime upgrades and we invested in the platform pro developer. You never ever said it was just for the existing version customers bought. This is absolutely wrong and criminal to do this to customers. I think the next step is filing complaints with the FTC, Attorney Gen in your region and posting online in places like Warrior Forum and other developer forums. This way people will know how you took advantage of good people. People who put up with your slow to develop process and long over due fixes. It took your team a lot of time to get things rolling properly and what do we get, a stab in the back. You need to either fix this problem by giving people their free upgrade to 2.0 or be prepared to face a serious backlash. Considering their are fantastic frameworks for wordpress out there at a fraction of the cost and with real business ethics. I believe everyone who got the proverbial stick up the whazooo should complain on all the forums and to the FTC and General Attorney. Tell them how you took our money and rights to upgrades.

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Jenny
@nueranet The rules were never changed. The FAQ has remained the same throughout 1.x and 2.x. The FAQ (located at http://www.pagelines.com/pricing/) explicitly states: [i][u]How do updates work? Do they cost money?[/u] When you purchase the PageLines platform; all minor-release updates to the platform are free. For example, if you have version 2.0, then all 2.X updates (including bug-fix and minor feature updates) will be free. [/i] "Lifetime" is a term added by the membership system. "Lifetime" means that the product you purchased will never expire. If it didn't say "Lifetime", then it would have an expiration date and I don't assume you would find that as a suitable alternative. You will receive lifetime updates for your 1.X product which will include any important security updates but no new features will be added to them as our focus is on the current release.

Jenny :: Web designer at Simple Mama (follow me at @simplemamacom)

Check out Share Me, a social sharing add-on for DMS that is super simple to set up.

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cartschris
@arpowers or @simple_mama Deleting user posts isn't helping you guys look any better. Before deleting user posts you should provide a reason for deleting. Did I violate any predefined rules in the post that you removed?

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stjack
@arpowers @simple_mama @pagelines team... I think there is confusion here - and that this confusion is deliberate even though its causing your business harm. I too purchased the pagelines 1.5 developer "lifetime" for some fair amount of money. At the time, pagelines wasn't a buttoned up tool - and still required more customization to use than I had time for - so it was shelved until your next iteration came out... to encourage your efforts, I became a beta tester - I wasn't using as heavily as others and sidelined that effort as well (apparently a day only has 24 hours (unchanging...)) I've been watching this drama unfold and have to side with we who helped you first. I understand that your going to point to an obscure line in legalese that no one read but were forced to agree to in advance of purchase? Do you know how frequently those kind of arguments are thrown out in california courts? Imagine MANY of your existing customers marching in to superior court with this kind of grievance, and your little argument... that would be dark day for you. When you misrepresent your wares in this way - you lose the faith of those who helped you to exist while you were getting "established"... whatever your hidden terms, your public one was "lifetime" - and when "lifetime" and "developer" go hand in hand, its not iterative. I don't think there is confusion - again, except that which you have intentionally created. Growing is never easy. As anyone whose ever made it through their youth can attest - growing pains can suck. AND youthful mistakes happen... What you've done, and what you are doing, is undermining trust in your product. It may be the best thing since sliced water (ice cubes) but no one will know because as we invested in you as you were learning to crawl - you are failing us as you stand. This is your youthful mistake. You can take corrective action by honoring those terms that folks (like me) signed up for, and thought they were agreeing to despite your submarine clause - or you can leave it alone and see what the fates provide. Builder has been doing a bang up job. As has Headway Themes. Your "unique" position - isn't so unique. What it will come down to is trust, and hope that the company that a developer throws their lot with will be there when necessary - and not reach into a pocket to thieve a few bucks. Which is what it appears you are doing. Alternatively, you could post yourself to github, get forked, and appreciate the MANY unpaid contributors to the codebase that you are using to build your empire and see what happens. (I mean, there are more alternatives, but the nuclear one is that your "pagelines" company folds and reemerges under a different masthead) Whatever the case - unless you've got something else planned, I think the pooch has been screwed. @arpowers you DID intend the confusion, it wouldn't have existed otherwise. You used the words "LIFETIME DEVELOPER EDITION" and offered it at a premium price... Your confusion of your own terms can be summed as : thus screwing those who paid for "lifetime developer" editions by demanding more $$. Apparently "lifetime" in pagelines speak means "Until the next version" I don't think any court would disagree. Especially not a court of your customers, clients and peers... Your hindsight on this should be CRYSTAL CLEAR on that point. You may have intended to perpetually charge us, but that wasn't clear. You may have intended to offer a stable and working product from the first purchase date, but as evidenced by the numerous errors and failings that we developers have endured, that wasn't clear. What's ultimately the most frustrating part of this - is that your potential as a quality organization has been tainted - and while Wordpress is undergoing its own transformation - leadership among the development community is also transforming, and you all seemed positioned to be part of that... now you will not be... and all the great good hopes for what you've created will go away too... "game changer" doesn't mean - you change the rules to suite yourself and screw your supporters... Anyway - I've got work to do... and hopefully will watch as you bloom through this rough patch with some creative salve for we pained few... (how many loyal customers do you have?) Fix this, or so long. (My hope of hopes is that you DO fix this... you seemed like such nice guys.) Jj

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nueranet
Well Said STJACK, Your loyal Lifetime developer customers paid a premium and supported you through your infancy and growing pains. There were a lot of us who also paid the price of having to redo project several times because of changes. We help you grow and now in your childhood phase, you are acting like a little spoiled child and rebelling. However, it will seriously hurt you, many of us are working with other frameworks and making recommendations and feature changes or additions. Developers will see the demand and like stjack said, your uniqueness is fading fast. We are already developing with several frameworks using very similar features and honestly a lot less pain. A smart business person would see that offering a free upgrade to 2.0 to your founding customers would benefit you 1000 times better then ticking off your customer base you will bury you alive on social media platforms and forums. If you want to play poker with us go for it, but its a nasty and mean world out there in this field. Be smart not stupid . . .maybe you will just make it through these rough patches.

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nueranet
FYI arpowers, This is customer support or maybe wanting us to send emails so that others don't see the issues underlying the founding customers and their purchase is your way of shoving this under the rug. not cool at all.

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noblebowman
Wow... I have spent $285.00 on frameworks and themes with "lifetime" upgrades and now I am left out in the cold on this "new framework" ... What a scam. I cannot undersand the benefit of "lifetime" when "lifetime" means "1 year". I think there are problems with this I need someone to let me know my options.

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slingr
Unfortunately it appears as though they've purged their website of all previous static pages that existed prior to the complete changeover to Framework. Please correct me if I'm wrong ... if perhaps there is an archive somewhere that's just not linked to the current site. I would assume with some Google searches all those pages are cached somewhere but it's not worth the time to pursue at the moment. I am in complete sympathy with the gist of this thread. Pagelines managers ([url="http://www.pagelines.com/about/"]http://www.pagelines.com/about/[/url]) have brought all this wrath upon themselves. I don't know their motivations and intentions. Because all of it was avoidable. However, I am less inclined, @stjack, to believe that they deliberately confused and misled their customers. From my dealings with them since June (and I've had more than my share of email exchanges with Kyle), I think the confusions, misunderstandings, anger, etc., are the result of sloppy and careless indifference more than deliberate deceit. I badmouth attorneys as much as anybody, but I think good and timely legal adult supervision would've prevented some (not all) of the current disputes regarding the meanings of terms like "lifetime," "updates," "upgrades," "membership," "releases," "themes," "frameworks," "support," "Developer/+ version," "Pro/+ version," "subscriber" and so many others. To my understanding, the "lifetime" label was intended to carry more marketing than actual significance. I read it as basically meaning there wasn't an annual fee. But then, how many self-hosted themes have an annual fee? I mean, it's silly for anybody to claim (or expect) "lifetime" support for a software product. That term really shouldn't be used. I think the key distinction here is between what's an "update" to an existing purchased product, what's an "upgrade" and what does it apply to (from what to what?) and what is a "new release"? That's where I think there are real issues. I'm not an attorney, but it sure seems to me that: 1) based on the way Pagelines management (and the "Pros" on the Forum) represented the "new release" in the previous months; 2) given the similarities in capabilities, structure, and user interface with Platform Pro (for example, Pagelines Framework 2.0 is way more similar to Platform Pro 1.5 than Platform Pro was to any of the four themes); 3) given their solicitation of sites for the "Showcase" ([url="http://www.pagelines.com/upcoming-pagelines-showcase/"]http://www.pagelines.com/upcoming-pagelines-showcase/[/url]) back in SEPTEMBER, when there wasn't a "Pagelines Framework" but only "Platform Pro" and the Pagelines themes, to be called "Pagelines Showcase"; 4) given their own confusion between the "new Framework" and the old "Platform" (from their FAQs: "Will my current theme work with PageLines? Currently, the only themes that will work with PageLines are PageLines themes [b]which are built on-top of the PageLines Platform[/b].") 5) and since they chose nomenclature for a "new release" that carried a version number (2.0) that just happened to be in sequence to the existing Platform Pro product (1.5) ... they've got a real problem on their hands, legal or otherwise. Granted, they have completed changed their product ecosystem with the Store, creating separate plugins for what were previously core functions in Platform Pro, and have (apparently) discontinued all previous products since you can't purchase them anymore. But changing their ecosystem is a business decision and has nothing to do with the core question of whether the "new release" shouldn't be considered as an "update" for the purpose of whether existing customers should've had to pay for it. I posted a question on a separate thread about their Terms of Service, which are not currently posted or aren't accessible through the link they've provided. I'll be interested to see what those terms are, especially as they relate to the 30-day money back guarantee and what the dates are for "members" like me who basically have been paying for it over the last x months. Here's the page with the refund policy: [url="http://www.pagelines.com/pricing/"]http://www.pagelines.com/pricing/[/url] Some are willing to excuse Pagelines for this rollout debacle because of their "start-up" status. I'm curious as what the linguistic statute of limitations is for "start-up." If you click on the "Blog" link on the footer menu, there's some interesting reading going back to 2008. After more than three years, when does "benefit of the doubt" yield to just "doubt"?

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Simon
@slingr I'm not going to be dragged down to this threads level but I am interested to know what you are referring to here: [quote]creating separate plugins for what were previously core functions in Platform Pro[/quote]

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cartschris
@arpowers @pross and to a lesser degree @simple_mama As others have pointed out, the way that some of you are handling this criticism is not making Pagelines look like a mature company capable of being there for its customers. There is little humility in your responses and some of them could be interpretive as insulting to your customers (e.g. @pross last comment). I understand that it can be hard to deal with criticism and not react emotionally, God knows I have this problem during design review sessions and when I deal with some of my customers (I had to eat close to $5,000 earlier this year to smooth out a misunderstanding with a client even though I'm still convinced I wasn't to blame). Whether or not you agree with negative customer feedback, you have to at least show your customers you're capable of understanding where they're coming from. Closing respectful yet critical threads ([url="http://www.pagelines.com/forum/discussion/15772/pagelines-framework-upgrade-price#Item_17"]http://www.pagelines.com/forum/discussion/15772/pagelines-framework-upgrade-price#Item_17[/url]), deleting comments, and trying to route customers to your email is not how you should be handling this criticism. You need to publicly respond to these issues in a thoughtful way. As an example, when Netflix decided to split its streaming & DVD services, they received a lot of negative feedback. Customers quickly received a letter from their president that let customers know he understood why they were upset, but also provided reasons why Netflix was going to have to do what they did. While a lot of people were still upset, I respected his effort in addressing negative customer feedback. I want to extend this respect to Pagelines. A sincere and well written apology can go a long way, even if you feel like you weren't in the wrong. Additional resource: How to Handle Customer Complaints in Social Media: [url="http://conceptlocal.com/2011/03/how-to-handle-customer-complaints-in-social-media/"]http://conceptlocal.com/2011/03/how-to-handle-customer-complaints-in-social-media/[/url]

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