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With Great Kindness, I discourage you from using DMS at this juncture

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#1 margeaux7†


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Posted 18 August 2013 - 10:38 PM

I am writing this not to be unkind, but to forewarn people of the potential issues.


First off, the people that built DMS have done a herculean job. The concept is so amazing and I know it will work to standards very soon. The staff has been very quick to help with customizing and I am so appreciative of that.


The challenge is that DMS is very buggy and even more difficult than Pagelines. I learned a lot figuring out workarounds so that is a good thing.


DMS was billed as a designer dream, but the learning curve is like Flash or Dreamweaver and you need to know how to do way too much custom coding in an environment with gobs of nesting. I just don't do well with that, no matter how hard I try. (The customizing is three times as complicated in DMS.)


I have used pagelines for 2 years and I LOVE it. I decided to teach myself DMS. After two weeks I have completely given up and am starting over in Pagelines. This means I will be up all night re-building a DMS site that just doesn't function, in tried and true Pagelines.


DMS is so difficult and so buggy. I am remaining calm because this is not life and death. I am fortunate because the two weeks loss in income is minimized by a second wage earner in my family. Not everyone has the luxury.


I know I will return to DMS someday, but for now, Pagelines Framework is true blue and I encourage you to stick with it.

#2 JaffaDave†


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Posted 19 August 2013 - 03:56 AM

Are you saying DMS is buggy or the simple fact that you do not know CSS well enough to be able to work with it. I've completed 7 commercial web sites now using DMS without any bugs, sure there a small learning curve but I've yet to see any major bugs that stopped me creating any type of web sites.

#3 Adrianna Lima†

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 04:52 AM


#4 KristaD



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Posted 19 August 2013 - 05:49 AM

margeaux7 -  I felt the same way -  for a few days. I missed my deadline two weeks ago because I really wanted the site I'm building to stand out for the client (who is a celebrity!). I have been stressed beyond belief, working on this day and night plus squeezing in my regular 10 hour day job. I go to bed around 3 am every day, get up at 7:30 am. Everything I built for this client was on Pagelines pro. Then I found out DMS was released and I decided to give it a shot and dump my clients entire site onto it. At first, I was like WTF. THEN I started really noodling around and I got the hang of it.. it took two solid days of noodling, but I eventually figured it out. It isn't too bad. Just keep trying! It does save me mounds of time once I eventually cracked the DMS mystery.

#5 Danny


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Posted 19 August 2013 - 12:13 PM


If I am honest, I am amazed you think DMS is difficult and buggy. There are bugs, but thats granted with any piece of software.


What did you find difficult and why did you feel you needed to use so much custom coding ?

DMS has been designed so that you do not need to use custom code. Granted, there are some designs that will require custom code. If you can provide what difficulties you had and why you felt you needed to custom code, we may be able point you in the right direction.

Also what are these bugs you ran into?

#6 margeaux7†


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Posted 19 August 2013 - 06:51 PM

The templates repeatedly inherited items from other templates. I deleted all templates but one. Build it out and saved it. I then created another template and saved it. I altered the second template and the first one changed.


I did this over and over creating differently named templates to make sure it wasn't me. I also turned off plugins to see if there was a conflict. So consequently I could not create a second unique page that did not include sliders, boxes etc. The stuff appropriate for only my home page.


So I had no choice but to start over.


In addition, tried and true business branding rendered poorly in IE9 (which unfortunately my customers use). The right edge extended way beyond the fixed area no matter how much help I received from the developer of business branding (adjusting padding and margins etc.). I even tried different tricks with photoshop to "visually" force the proper edge but it didn't work in all browsers.


There are so many things I loved about DMS,  but I stumbled with some of the CSS (It seems much more more straightforward in Pagelines).


I am extremely invested and appreciative of the whole pagelines organization, I simply do not want someone who doesn't have average to above CSS abilities to jump in thinking this is for them.  

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#7 dotlizard



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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:24 PM

I am having similar issues as margeaux7 with the interited items / templates being overwritten. I can only load the pre-built templates (to where I can see them -- it still always says "default" up in the top bar), and when I save them unexpected things happen -- and I can't seem to load my custom (new) templates at all, nor use them when creating pages. I may be missing something terribly obvious but there's just a huge disconnect with what I expect the framework to do, and what happens when I want to load a template or save it, or use it. I want several custom layouts with widgetized areas, and I want to select from them when I create a page -- that's about it. I tried for so many hours to do this, and failed. Miserably.  


In addition, the framework is glacially slow (on regular HostGator hosting). I am new to the PageLines framework, so not familiar with that PageLines was before this DMS thing happened, but I feel like I came in at a bad time -- it would probably help if I understood how things worked before, but I don't have time to figure this out now. 


As it is I'm going to cut my losses (a weekend of work) and start from scratch, perhaps I will explore DMS again in a few months when things are less bleeding-edge. 

#8 margeaux7†


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Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:51 PM

I would seriously love it if there was a paid "fast lane" for support. That way I don't spend an hour doing something that might take someone else 10 minutes to read my request, go to my site, figure it out and write the email. Have you considered a per issue paid system? For instance maybe I could buy a package of 20 supports for $200 or 10 supports for $120 or some other similar model.  I am just making up dollar amounts. Not trying to insult anyone. I do believe one has to spend money to make money, especially if you can get expert support ASAP.

#9 beardedavenger


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Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:28 PM

I can honestly say I've used DMS more than anyone.


Is it buggy?

There are VERY few bugs that cause annoyances. These are already documented in Github.


Is there data-loss?

Absolutely not. This stopped a week before it was released.


Are their systems still not back up and running fully? Is there a learning curve that the docs aren't doing a great job at covering?



Is the product itself superior to Framework, and is it usable? 

Absolutely. I've built multiple sites with it, because i understand it, along with the nuisances.


P.S - I offer premium support  ;)

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#10 Blackice



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Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:28 PM

Every "Drag and Drop" framework has had growing pains when going to the next level.  (Research several competitor's and you will see that when they moved from version 2 to to version 3 there were major issues). While I do sympathize with your issues, for even i too had these thoughts. It will require a change in paradigm when designing with DMS. The people at Pagelines are working quite hard but they are not the size of Apple, Inc. So lets cut them some slack. 


In my short time on the forums, i do know the community is active and will respond to questions if explained in sufficient detail. However, the answers will not be instant. In my experience with various frameworks you will have to get up to speed with LESS/CSS. No doubt about that. 



"Its a balancing act. I don't think you can say, "Design everything in the browser," just like you can't say "Never get into the code" - Jason VanLue

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#11 arlomiller†


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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:28 AM

I had trouble with the templates being overwritten and an inability to save a global default template.  Turned out that it is a plugin conflict.  I haven't taken the time yet to figure out which one.  But turning them off fixed the problem for me.

#12 Rob


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Posted 22 August 2013 - 03:33 PM

There seems to be some misunderstandings here that make Margeaux's post someone inappropriate.


Firstly, reading the docs is critical with any new product. You'd not get behind the wheel of a car without learning how to drive it and if you did, you'd deserve the auto crash that would ensue.


That said, there is a difference between just designing or laying out a page and knowing whether to do so globally or locally. Margeaux is speaking to the issue of global template changes and ignoring the obvious option to make such changes local, so that they apply to a single page only.  Again, a pure misunderstanding of the product.


It is very easy to accuse us of having bugs, but much more professional for any site developer or designer to cite the specifics so they can be addressed, and publish bug reports explaining the problem and how to reproduce it.  


I'm glad that Framework does so well, and wish everyone would read the docs, test DMS and patiently learn before jumping on this someone overblown bandwagon.  DMS may have issues, I'll grant that, but it is brand new. Not even out a month.  So the hysteria and histrionics about its failings are just that.  I've read many complaints, and I've addressed them all, and that's resulted in hundreds of fixes being applied already, but @margeaux, this posting is just over the top.  If you don't like DMS, use Framework, but to try and incite others to dislike it is not professional, not reasonable and not fair. I'm closing this topic and moving it to Ideas and Feedback as it has nothing to do with technical support!