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Where do we stand?


Best Answer Rob , 30 July 2013 - 05:55 PM

Hi,

 

Since this is becoming a long conversation and people are posting new issues here that should be in their own topics, I'm resolving this issue and asking everyone to post their own, new topics with specifics.  We cannot answer them if you just say things like "my site doesnt' work".  Tell us more and we'll do our best.

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#1 paul_t

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 06:53 AM

Its been impossible to find out whats going on, or an appropriate place to post - so posting here...

 

Having purchased PageLines a little over a year ago, spent time and money researching the product, purchasing, learning the system, and more time and money introducing the system to a small, but significant group within the UK NHS, we finally get the go ahead to move forward with further site development. Keep in mind this is the NHS - most (all but a few) only have access to IE in the office.

 

Q's

 

Have we just (without notice) been been completely dumped by PageLines?

 

A 'lifetime' license for a product does not mean 18months - please clarify what the future holds for PL

 

As a paid user (not Plus) what discount do we get on DMS?

 

Are we hearing correctly  - DMS only works on Chrome? i.e. If that is the case, then, not to put too finer point on it, we are completely stuffed on our NHS project?

 

I can't believe that months of research, followed by careful negotiation and demonstration, it is all going down the pan.  Something that purported to be the be the ideal tool for the job looks like it has just turned into a complete nightmare. I trust there is a solution. 

 

The is VERY major for our business. Please someone - get back to me.


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#2 Rob

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 01:48 PM

Hello Paul,

 

Firstly, PageLines Framework has not come to the end of life. DMS is a different product, operating in a different structure within your site(s). Thus there's no worry about being abandoned by us.  That said, I cannot give you any idea how long Framework's lifespan will be. We're just recently ending PlatformPro's lifespan, more than 18 months since Framework was introduced, so I doubt we'll be in any rush to end Framework anytime soon.

 

Lifetime is defined as the lifespan of the product.  As technology advances quickly, the lifespan of products may become shortened. Framework was flexible enough to last a while, so I'm confident that it will not come to end of life very fast.

 

Without Plus, unfortunately DMS will be a new purchase.  Discount questions are asked via our Billing office at hello@pagelines.com.

 

DMS works (is visible) in all major, current browsers.  It is only the visual management tools which work only in Chrome at present.  This is the layout, and design, not the addition of posts and pages.  So if your clients at NHS want to publish a post or new page from IE, they can still do so, since that's done in WordPress, not DMS.  However, if they want to redesign the layout of the page too, or customize some aspects of its design, then Chrome will be essential. Given that, and without knowing exactly how this is organized, I'd say you're not stuffed.

 

I don't think you're "going down the pan" at all.  Rather, I think your ideal tool of Framework will remain for some time, and you can continue using it, comfortably.  I would however, recommend that in the fullness of time, you get the free version of DMS, experiment with and test it, as this will help you in future, should NHS upgrade systems that include contemporary browsers.

 

My own sites are remaining in Framework for the present, till I can find the time to convert.  They're rather large sites (over 250,000) posts, so it's going to take a bit of time to convert everything.  Time being the precious commodity I lack in abundance.


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#3 paul_t

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 08:02 PM

Thanks for the feedback Rob. That's certainly put to rest the immediate nightmare. Framework does still appear the best way forward. But as you'll probably know the NHS isn't a service you can just drop in the latest tech and expect a whole office to get updated - it just doesn't happen - so  Framework needs to exist long enough for natural progression to take place.



#4 Rob

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:00 PM

I'm painfully aware of the foibles and limits of the NHS, as are many of my colleagues.  Bureaucracies always run behind the times on technology.  I completely understand your concerns.



#5 pcametro

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:26 PM

In my case, I purchased Pagelines Pro in March. Currently I cannot log into my account from WordPress neither can I login via the Pagelines itself. Tells me my password is invalid. I reset it twice and yet no joy. There is no advice in this regard and no solutions or updates are being posted. I know I am not alone in this situation as there are a number of posts on Facebook as well as other media in this regard.

 

However, I cannot find any response from Pagelines to any of these issues. Clearly this is not a healthy situation and at this stage I do feel totally abandoned whilst Pagelines is seemingly presently focusing on DMS sales and not to the plight of its existing customers.

 

Prior to purchasing Pagelines Pro I thoroughly researched the market and considered a number of other frameworks before deciding to purchase. Nowhere did I find a reference that the lifespan of Pagelines will be limited - a fact that Pagelines was fully aware of at the time. Surely Pagelines had a legal duty to inform prospective purchasers that the lifespan of Pagelines will be short due to the upcoming launch of DMS. This leaves a very bad taste in the mouth and a sense of being ripped off especially as we converted all our sites to Pagelines The fact that we are locked out of logging into our Pagelines account makes this situation far worse and only results in complete loss of trust and faith in Pagelines and its management.

 

I believe full explanations are needed and immediate action in respect of the logging in issue.



#6 Rob

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 09:46 PM

@

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,

 

A full explanation has been provided above and the commitment that our developers are working to fix this.  They cannot work faster than it takes to get things rebuilt and resolved.  Personally, I'd prefer they work to restore the damages done on Tuesday and Wednesday correctly, than rush it for the sake of anyone's urgent needs.  This is critical, so that it doesn't breakdown later on.  Kindly be patient as we try to get this done in the most efficient, effective way possible.  Thanks for your understanding.



#7 illinimatt81

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 04:27 AM

It seems to me Pagelines could support two products. Framework has many advantages over DMS for those that know what they are doing and DMS is well suited to those that have little experience with web design.

 

It's good to know that Framework will be supported for some time, especially in the face of Wordpress 4 coming soon. But I still feel like the clock is ticking and I have to decide what to do. DMS doesn't seem as robust in the time I have spent with it and it would require me to really change the look and feel of my website when I don't have any desire for a redesign.

 

For example, I seem to be forced into one look for the blog pages. There are no robust styling features in DMS that Framework has. For navigation, you have only the fixed nav bar with the small logo or no logo at all for your header.

 

I'm going to give DMS some time to mature a bit and figure out what to do.


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#8 dgosine

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:35 AM

I agree with illinimatt81 why can't pagelines support Frameworks and DMS?

 

Rob you state that  "DMS is a different product" does that mean its not the upgrade path to Framework or it is?

 

Instead of killing frameworks how about giving people the option to purchase a yearly subscription for it and keep it moving ahead instead of moving people to a software package you are renting (DMS)?


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#9 paul_t

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:41 AM

Agreed - we should have two products. (its currently vital that it continues). But paying for it again? - we've already paid for it once, that would be taking the 'micky'. 



#10 pcametro

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 08:37 AM

Hi Rob,

 

I fully appreciate the problems that Pagelines are having. For that reason i waited until yesterday (after losing login capability on wednesday) before raising any questions. If Pagelines took the trouble of advising its existing Pagelines Pro customer base as to the efforts to restore service for them, I would have quietly bided my time and waited for the service to be restored. however, this did not happen and the focus was solely on DMS and conversions from Framework to DMS. Whilst I am appreciative of the fact that Pagelines need to make money, this should not come at the expense of its existing customers. Up to now I still cannot log in to my account while Pagelines is doing bustling trade with DMS. This is not acceptable in anybody's book and does not engender any trust in the intentions of the Pagelines management, quite the contrary.

 

When will full functionality for Pagelines Pro be restored?



#11 illinimatt81

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 01:01 PM

I'm afraid that we'll be told Framework is depricated and the time has come to move to DMS as was done with Platform Pro after the launch of Framework. See 

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I'm still looking for a straight, direct answer from Pagelines about the future for Framework.



#12 dgosine

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 01:36 PM

Paul_t I am not saying to pay for it again, but a tiny yearly subscription fee is alright (when I say tiny I would say about 5USD/Month) This is for them to make updates/ mantain/ new releases/ etc just like they are planning on doing with DMS.



#13 Martin Bay

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 02:03 PM

Nice to hear DMS is just a new project - with the down time and all some - including me came to the conclusion that Pagelines Framework had come to an end. I'll stay at the Famework and if forced I will move to another Framework. I've played around with DMS and it doesn't seem as clean and straight forward as the Freamework. 

 

I asume the store for the Framework, sections and plugins will soon be online again. 

 

CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG.



#14 Rob

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 02:15 PM

Hi to all who've responded.  Let me start off by saying I love Framework too, and would love to keep it going forever. If it were my personal choice, I'm on that team.  However, I don't get to make those decision. 

 

As for PlatformPro, we've just deprecated it in the past 45 days, so I'm not sure where that came from Matt.

 

DMS is a new product, but it's also an extension of Framework. You can see that when you login as admin and go, as you did with Framework, to Dashboard > PageLines > Site Options, etc. They're still there.

 

But folks, keep in mind, even though DMS is a new product, and even though Framework is its point of origin, we're not rushing anyone to move over from Framework to DMS.  We'd like you to switch, but to be very honest, that's only because we want you to have the best possible systems to work with.  Right now, we still have many people still using Platform Pro.  Oddly, I just converted the last of my PlatformPro sites to Framework 3 months ago (how's that for timing). 

 

We're not going to do things to deprecate Framework today, tomorrow or anytime in the near future. Too many people have it, use it and have built their sites on it to make such a move quickly. 

 

I would ask everyone however, that since DMS is open-source, and free, just try it on a test site and give it a whirl. Kick the tires and see if you like the way it works.


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#15 paul_t

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 05:27 PM

Hi Rob

 

Thank you for your continued dialogue over the weekend.

 

I can't speak for everyone but I'd expect many would like to move to (or at least look at) new concepts as soon as time permits. Testing DMS is a given! But it is early days, and being a brand new product it has yet to establish anything of a track record in comparison to Framework. We can't be 'using' clients to 'experiment' with 1.0 release level products. Personally - love to test it,  -  but put my business on the line along with a government level project using un tested, just out of the bag product - no. It is essential that a sensible testing and transition time is made available for Framework users.

 

To that end we also need to know for how long Framework is going to be supported. There is definitely an air of unease here -  judging by recent announcements 'Any time soon' could be 1,2,3,6 months? - and that makes the further investment in the current framework and untested DMS untenable. Some sort of roadmap needs to be made public as its not just the cost of the product, but the hundreds of man hours that go into research, testing and deployment and more importantly credibility that really count.

 

When time permits we need to look at the scope of this 'credit note' as no public sector project is going to permit advertising links or graphics. You say you don't mess with sites - that's another big one for taking anything from Pagelines forward. Our current client would drop it and us like a stone if any form of advertising appeared on the site. Yes they could pay - but if they leave our support and stop, the picture looks very different. As said, still need to see under what circumstances this 'advertisement' is going to appear (if at all) - and (with respect) suggest it needs a rethink, as in, 'don't mess with sites' means exactly that.



#16 Rob

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:29 PM

Paul, to clarify, we do not have any plans to deprecate Framework in the short, mid or long term at present. I will repeat that Framework was released in December 2011, but PlatformPro, its predecessor wasn't made redundant, officially, until very, very recently.  Before the forum crashed on Tuesday night, I had been answering support topics on Platformpro that very afternoon.   I'll leave you to judge the gap between early December 2011 and end of June 2013.

 

I would not get panicked or even nervous about this.  We know DMS is new, and that like any new technology, it will have to go through several maturation stages before its really perfected.  We'd be pretty silly to eliminate Framework in the meantime.

 

I'm not sure where you're getting any idea about advertising or our own branding on DMS, but we are doing absolutely no ads on any of our products and have never done so.  We have included watermarks, but have made it possible to remove them either by CSS (in legacy theme products) or by options in PlatformPro and with a simple check box in Framework (which exists in DMS as well).  I'd urge you, to look carefully at the product before you presume or prejudge.  Also, please look at your Dashboard, click PageLines and you'll see the Site Options, Page Options > Drag & Drop and our own Dashboard, pretty much just as you saw them in Framework.  Check the Site Options out. You'll be surprised how similar they are to Framework.

 

DMS is a giant leap forward in visual editing, but it's not like crossing the Rubicon.  We're not wiping one model out to build a new one. Rather, we're progressing, moving forward, step by step.  So fear not.  Nothing's getting wiped out, and you'll have the time you need to grow into DMS.  Your clients will be loving you for the added flexibility, and you'll be happy to be able to achieve more in less time.

 

To clarify, I never suggested or hinted that anyone test DMS on a live client site.  So, for everyone, please relax. Drink less coffee and more water. Take an afternoon off and enjoy a picnic in the park or a clambake at the beach.  THAT's what DMS is trying to accomplish. Reducing your work time and allowing you to enjoy things in the real world. 


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#17 paul_t

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:17 PM

Thanks Rob. All positive news. The speculation has only arisen out of the hiatus that has occurred over the last few of days and the limited information available on site. Being able to remove or hide any credit or watermark that automatically appears at any time (i.e. after subscription ceases) via dashboard or with CSS certainly makes things more attractive and workable. Will get to testing DMS as soon as time permits.

 

Looking forward to seeing our Framework Developer license active again and moving forward on current projects.  

 

Appreciate the feedback.



#18 illinimatt81

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:48 PM

I have been very happy with Framework and have tested DMS on a localhost copy of my main website. My conclusion is that it is not ready for primetime yet - for me. But I will give it a chance as it develops. I jumped on board Framework right away but hesitant to do so with DMS. Much like I don't upgrade to the new version of Windows right away I will take a wait and see approach. 

 

I'm glad to hear that Framework will be supported for some time to come. I was worried I was going to have to take immediate measures to move to something else.

 

And I did get outside today, actually did a 15 mile run on Chicago's lakefront!



#19 Rob

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 07:49 PM

Glad to help.



#20 seo_pro

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 12:44 PM

The question is the level of updates for Framework. There is no question as to the staff helping out in forums, etc. That suppprt is great. Maintenance releases for bug fixes though is not the same as keeping the product relevant for any changes to wordpress, etc. Only time will tell as to how much support framework will get.

 

Maybe I missed it, but I've never seen a clarification of the subscription issue? Is it true that once we cancel the subscription that our clients websites will have  a pagelines link inserted automatically?